Denis Healy served as the British Secretary of State for Defence from 1964-1970. In the interview he discusses nuclear strategic doctrine. He calls the group of mid-ranking officials who actually concentrate on the issues of nuclear strategy the nuclear mafia or intelligentsia mafia, to distinguish them from higher-level politicians, who only rubber stamp the decisions, but dont spend any time really studying the field. He describes the development of NATO nuclear strategy from massive retaliation to flexible response. Although he was one of the strategists who helped devise flexible response, he has since recognized flaws, on which he elaborates. He also describes the decision to deploy Pershing and Cruise missiles in Western Europe, and the various directions arms control could and should evolve. He ends by lamenting the lack of public attention given to nuclear strategy, which is especially notable because all of the information is available and academics are creating good work in the field; however the public is just not interested.